On Life and Love After 50 eNewsletter November 29 2024
By Tom Blake Columnist
The June 7th eNewsletter was titled, “Senior Man Scammed.” One short paragraph in that article quoted a text I had received from a woman, age 61. We had dated two times for an hour each time. The age gap was 25 years.
She wrote, “If I move in with you, I wouldn’t want to be tossed to the street if you pass away before me, so I would need you to change your estate plan to leave me your home.”
That quote inspired Champ Virginia, Newport Beach CA, to write me. She emailed, “That younger woman was certainly ‘jumping the gun’ and she sounded like a gold digger. Women are just trying to survive, and that woman was no exception…her action however does bring up the question of living together at a senior age.
“No woman or man would want to be left homeless at this stage of the game. Moving is traumatic and highly stressful and even more so as our ages increase and health issues surface.”
And then Virginia wrote about different options that could be put in place to protect the surviving person if their mate, the homeowner, passes away first. An estate planner needs to be consulted before the move-in occurs and a pre-move-in agreement signed by both parties.
She continued, “The other option is to just continue dating each other and living apart (a bit of a hassle and not so comfortable or satisfying as living together).
“The senior age with inevitable health issues, as well as declining physical strength, and all that accompanies it make this scenario a conundrum.
“If people live together, and one develops dementia, cancer or another crippling disease, would they be obligated to stay together if they live together but aren’t married? That’s a sticky problem.
“It’s not like we are teenagers or mid-lifers, we don’t have the luxury timewise of just dating endlessly if we are seeking someone to be a life companion. Maybe a column about seniors living together would generate opinions that would be helpful to Champs.”
Virginia raises a good point. A column based on the inputs from Champs would be beneficial to lots of people. A possible topic: The pros and cons of senior couples living together.
Another Champ, Leslie, emailed, “Many people of our ages are with SO’s (significant others) but are not marrying. It bothers me that my SO doesn’t want to marry again. He’s a widower after 53 years of marriage.
“I’ve never married through my own fears, though I’ve have had several relationships and proposals. The ‘one’, in my 30’s, I ran from and wouldn’t marry anyone else.
“My widower SO says he will never marry again. I could marry him, we’re both 83. I talk to my doctor, and he cautions me to stay in the relationship because he’s known too many women who broke up with a man because things weren’t perfect, and then they couldn’t find another. Hence, I stay and accept that I’ll never marry. Your eNewsletters give me hope.
“I was hoping, now, to experience marriage once. Our friends are married and there’s just a difference — a comfort they have in their commitment — that I don’t have. We basically live together, and it’s been almost eight years together, both are 83. I know many people remarry/marry, so to read about many couples not remarrying helps me.”
***
So, Champs, send me your opinions and experiences dealing with the “Pros and cons of seniors living together” issue. I’ll do a follow up column if I receive enough responses.
My Gratitude
Yesterday, of course, was Thanksgiving Day. I’m grateful for many things. But one of the biggest things is you, my Champs. Your responses to columns provide me with the material to generate future columns. I’ve formed friendships with many of you, although we may not have met in person. You’ve revealed your vulnerabilities. I hurt when you hurt.
You’ve shared advice that has been helpful to me personally. The eNewsletter has been published for 25 years. Let’s keep it moving forward. I’m grateful to all of you.
On Life and Love after 50 eNewsletter –January 1, 2021
28 responses to “Do women 65+ plus not want to live with a man?
Thanks, Champs for responding to the eNewsletter sent two weeks ago regarding: Do women 65+ not want to live with a man? I selected 28 responses (22 from women, six from men). All the responses included below were sent via email, except for two telephone conversations I had with Les and Dave, men friends of mine.
This article is long and thorough. I may publish it as an electronic book.
In reading today’s eNewsletter, please remember, these are quotes from Champs and not opinions of mine. Many quotes are edited for length and clarity by me. Each person’s idea regarding people 65-plus living alone or with someone is unique. Most people are enlightened; others are a tad angry or bitter. There is no right or wrong response.
In the end, I will pick a new moniker for women in the age 65+ group. I’ve narrowed it down to “The Independent Generation” or “The Contented Generation.” Of course, this will be an unofficial-tongue-in-cheek designation, and for fun only.
What women said
Terry, “We are in our 60’s and older. I don’t know many friends who are interested in marriage or even excited about their existing marriage. Many new relationships come with lots of baggage. Going through that is easier if households are not co-mingled.
“Humans at our age are set in their ways. Sex is nice but not necessary (at least for women), separation of incomes is tricky, and sharing of living space–unless the space is huge—would be difficult”
Laurie Jo, “I have mixed feelings regarding being a couple under the same roof. My boyfriend of five years is a lovely man, but he is younger, with a career and a son still at home. He loves his home. We live 90 minutes away; that commute is unreasonable for him.
“But I am still lonely a lot of the time. Living together is not an option for us; cohabitation is likely not in the cards. I have decided that for now, going back and forth for each of us on alternating weekends is ok.
“How every relationship plays out is different.”
Mary Ann, “After living alone for some time, people start to like having space, and not sharing or compromising with a partner. Many men don’t want to commit; they feel free and happy.”
Elizabeth, “I know many older women who want companionship but are worried about living together or getting married because they may lose some independence. Many are afraid of taking on household chores or losing financial independence.”
Carissa, “Women like myself who’ve spent years eating the right foods and taking good care of our bodies want to spend our retirement enjoying life, not being a nursemaid to a man who mistreated his body, and now wants his own, private caregiver in exchange for room and board.
“Financially secure women don’t need a man at this point in their lives unless he shares their values about good health and retirement.”
Kaitte, “I’m a very independent senior woman, most men can’t handle that—not needing a man to take care of me. Some men are afraid that I will drain them of their money.”
Sandra, “My guy and I are both Champs; we married in 2014. This is not a male or female issue. Many men now of retirement age, focused on their work and traditional male division of duties at home while women worked and assumed traditional roles at home. Retirement requires transition and often a new division of duties.
“I do not want to live alone; my husband and I are negotiating the learning curve now.”
Where do you choose to live after age 65?
Susan, “I have been in a 12-year relationship with a man who has been trying to complete a divorce throughout our relationship. We have had a LAT relationship. He declared this past week that he doesn’t want to continue.
“I have no interest in marriage and I love having my own place. I am 78, live in San Francisco. I am wondering if I could ever start another relationship. I have been told to only find widowers instead of divorced people. Widowers are sad, not mad.”
Deanne, 67, “I was happily married for 30 years, lost my husband six years ago to leukemia. I want to live with a partner, to enjoy making a home together. I’m better as a partner than as a solo act.
“My widow group (international and private) is filled mainly with women who dream of finding someone and intimacy again. They don’t like living alone. Widows long for a partner to live with while divorcees want freedom.”
Carol, 78, a songwriter. “Older men are afraid to take a chance on someone who has a life, interests, talent, and self-assurance. If they know I’m a songwriter, they don’t want to end up in a song like one I wrote, “So Many Women, So Little Time.”
One verse from my song: “You troll the waters both day and night, looking for a woman, you can excite! A nurse with a purse, housekeeper, and cook, they are all out there, all you need to do is look.”
Speaking of waters, some want to live on a yachtbut the Pilgrim sunk in Dana Point Harborin 2020 Photo by Ron Cohen
Pony Lady, “I know that ‘chore wars’ is alive and well in a couple of over-65 households that I know personally (long-term married couples). They want a more equal sharing of the chores…she says he won’t do anything and he doesn’t care.”
Christine, Relationship Coach, “Regarding, most women who tell me they don’t want to live with a man again because they did too much labor in their marriage, part of my coaching is to show them how to ‘ask for help’ and stop overdoing.
“Once they perfect this they’re more open to getting into another relationship. Plus, most men are happy to do their part in the ‘chores’ around the house.
“I’ve learned when we take responsibility for our happiness within a relationship it’s better to be partnered than single.”
Hamila, Texas, “I was married for 42 wonderful years and was a caregiver for the last six years of my husband’s life. I have no desire to live with another man. I do enjoy male company and all that might entail, but I do not want to share my home with another man. I enjoy doing what I want when I want. I enjoy my male friends but have no desire for them to take up residence.
“A couple of my widow friends agree with me. They are senior women content living alone.”
Gail, “I would live with a man for a couple of days each week, plus on trips and adventures. But full-time? No thank you. I am too independent and happy in my skin. I don’t need anyone giving me unwanted advice and don’t want to do that to anyone. I keep hoping to meet a good man who is available and interested.”
Lisa, “I moved last year from Southern California to the Tucson area. While I would like to find a partner, the LAT describes my preference now.
“I have furnished my home to my taste. If someone moved in, where would we put his stuff? If he didn’t have furnishings, that would be a red flag.
“I had a good relationship with a man in my neighborhood who entertained me mostly at his home. I enjoyed his company. However, he always had a TV on somewhere in his house, even if he wasn’t watching it, including one in the bedroom to watch the “Tonight” show, on a timer so he could go to sleep with it on.
“I’d like to find someone to do activities with, share meals, in or out sometimes, and have sleepovers and what they entail, but I want my freedom and independence too. “
Arlene, “It’s a trade-off! We get a roof; they get a slave. My ex never cleaned his toilet. He never cleaned anything except his car every Sunday morning, which prevented him from churching with me.
“Men want someone to clean house and lauder their stinky clothes. Not fun. Of course, they want a sex partner. The last three men I’ve known can’t perform due to diabetes. Yawn.
“Then we can watch them watch “the game” on tv while drinking beers. Stay upwind of the farts. Another yawn.”
Kathy, 59, “I remarried my husband of 20 years six years ago. I knew what I was getting back into. We live together. To say he does not clean up after himself is an extreme understatement; it can not only be exhausting but embarrassing.
“I take care of the yard, but the rest of his stuff is everywhere…most of it behind the RV gate, or I move it back there after a few days if it’s left out front. We look like the Beverly Hillbillies.”
Kathleen, 60, “I would like having a male companion to spend time with, especially seeing concerts, plays, book readings, or even going out with for a meal, but seniors living together, no thanks!”
Dianne, “No. Once is enough. It’s like the New Yorker cartoon where the man is proposing and the woman says, ‘Oh, so you want to offer me a life where nothing changes for you and my whole life does for me (not the exact caption but it captures the essence.)
“Can’t see how any man over 60, especially with children, could offer anything that made it worth moving in. And it’s not that I haven’t been pursued.”
Bonnie, “Better solo or better with your partner? While a man’s companionship is wonderful, being solo is also wonderful. Such an individual thing.”
Alicia, 68, “I stay busy with my hobbies. I would love to share a home with a man. If I meet a man and we fall in love, I think having a conversation about our lifestyles and talking about what’s important to each of us would make the transition of living together easier. I would hope the man would likewise have his hobbies, interests, and friends.”
Mary Lou, 75, “I can’t imagine living with someone today. I have turned into an independent senior woman, and I like my routine. I have made lots of friends in Denver since moving here three years ago. Since the pandemic, I Zoom twice a month with a group of fabulous senior women in a movie club. And once a month in a book club.
“I take occasional online classes with Senior Planet. I live a mile from my son and family. I still tutor students for bar exams and have 11 assigned to me now. I have a rich, full life, and am resigned to not having my great later-in-life love connection.”
Brenda, 59, “Women 65+…the independent generation. You should research more in-depth through history if thinking of using that label. Women have always been independent. In my opinion, it’s the men who have been dependent on women and have tried to make women dependent on them through laws and legal discrimination.
“I have known countless older and younger independent strong women. Your ‘label’ is nothing new. We’ve always been independent.
What men said
Army, “Most women want their independence and freedom. If you want to go dancing, they will drive themselves to meet you there; they don’t need or want a man in their lives.”
Les, 94, WWII vet, (by telephone) is living in an Orange County, California, assisted living facility. He doesn’t like being there. He isn’t looking for a mate. Instead, he’d rather purchase a single-level home with an attached two-car garage. In Southern Orange County, homes like that are hard to come by.
Dave, 80, Laguna Niguel, California, (by telephone) widower of six months, wishes senior centers and older singles clubs were open so he could make some new friends. He doesn’t want marriage, but a compatible pal would be nice to have.
Lawrence, “Most men need the emotional, financial and physical support from a woman. Why? Since WWII, families have become dependent on two incomes. The two-income program developed independence for women…Now, women want dominance over men. That’s why many men have opted out of committed relationships with women.”
Jim, humor columnist for Desert Exposure Magazine (Las Cruces, New Mexico) (www.desertexposure.com): “Your ‘Independent Generation” moniker reminds me of an 1855 poem, by Martha Ford titled “The Nantucket Girls Song.”
It’s too long for this column so I’m including the link. Here is the first sentence, “I have made up my mind now to be a Sailors wife, to have a purse full of money and a very easy life…
After reading these responses, I’m sticking with “The Independent Generation,” as it applies to single women age 65+ and their living-arrangement preference. Some want to live with a man; many don’t There’s no right or wrong answer. But, it reveals how our generation feels about cohabitation.
On Life and Love after 50 eNewsletter – July 12, 2019
by Thomas P Blake columnist for 25 years
Senior Movin’ Out is harder than Movin’ in. Where are those five sewing machines?
Movin’ Out (from the Broadway musical, featuring the music of Billy Joel) link to song Movin’ Out at end of today’s column
Last August, I received the following email from Stacey, “After 35 years of marriage, I was widowed in 2008. My husband died as a result of injuries received as a Marine in Vietnam Nam; I will not marry again in order to maintain my benefits.
“Since he passed away, I’ve had two significant relationships. The first lasted two years, but ended when his middle-aged adult children, most blatantly the daughters, did not accept me, and at times were passively, aggressively rude.
Seniors Living Together
“In the second relationship, I met Roger in 2013 on Match.com. It was his first relationship since his wife passed the year before. He begged me for two years to move in with him. I have been living in his home for the past two years. (I still own my own home which my daughter and her husband are renting from me). I’m 67; Roger is 73.
“He promised to make an arrangement through a lawyer, that if something happens to him, I will be able to stay in his home long enough, at least a couple months, in order to make other living arrangements and move, as his children will inherit his house and will sell it immediately.
“He still has not made that arrangement. We’ve had ups and downs. Other than not making the arrangement although he promised, we seem to be on fairly steady ground with one exception. As was the case in my first relationship mentioned above, middle-aged daughters are causing the problem.
“I feel Roger’s intent is to let me know that I am not, and never will be, part of their family, or even considered a friend of the family.
“Here’s why I feel that way: family group texts include everyone but me, invitations arrive with only Roger’s name on them, Christmas gift cards and Christmas cards come with his name only, to name two examples.
“We both sign invitations, cards and gifts to them, but I have NEVER been thanked or acknowledged. I feel his children call the shots and are worried that I may ‘get something that should be theirs.’
“All the while Roger continues to sing their praises and brag about his children.
“I worry about being locked out of his home should something suddenly happen to him. I have brought it up several times, to no avail.
“His children, mid-40s, are very vocal and openly discuss what they will get when he dies. Roger avoids any conversation about the problems with them when they occur, even though he sees it and knows it’s happening.
“The only time he addressed it was when he took his entire family, kids and grandkids, and me on vacation (he pays for their family vacation every year, and I pay for my family vacation every year). On that vacation, his daughter ignored me the entire week.
“He noticed and knew she ignored me; he told me ‘that’s just how she is.’ The following year, I would not go with them because it’s too uncomfortable for me to be ignored all week, actually, all the time by her.
“After my refusing to go along and forcing the issue, he did tell her to knock it off. She now says hello and goodbye to me…unbelievable.
“We love to travel and do things. I am trying to ignore the negative and enjoy life. Not feeling warmth and acceptance from his side is a huge turn off that I am forced to intermittently work through when stuff happens.
“For now, I am continuing in the relationship, but it gets difficult at times. Your newsletters inform me that there are fewer older single men, and it’s so hard to start over again. I am thinking that sometimes even though it’s not perfect, it can still be good.”
Tom responded to Stacey last August:
“Roger would have to put the living-in-his-house provision in his will to keep you there for x period of time. My estate planner says it takes a minimum of six months to get a property to market and sell. You should ask for and insist on it.
“Are you financially comfortable? Do you have the financial ability to leave? Do not stay in this relationship only because there is a lack of senior men.”
A woman friend also gave Stacey the same advice: get something legal in writing.
This week, Tom heard from Stacey with an update
Stacey wrote, “Over this past 11 months, I have pressed for what you and my friend suggested, with no response or positive action towards securing my staying in Roger’s home for six months if something happens to him, i.e. death or a nursing home.
“I finally made a request that he at least have something prepared stating that I will be able to get my belongings out of his home and won’t be locked out by his kids if something happens to him. I have five industrial sewing machines and equipment. Fabric, notions, in a makeshift workshop in his basement. I am a lifelong seamstress and it’s my main hobby since I retired.
“My 34-year profession was a paralegal and I’ve seen that happen more than once. Still no action. Finally, I pressed, it got heated, he told me to get the f… out, so I did.
Where are those five sewing machines?
“Six weeks ago, I moved back into my home, the day after Roger said that to me, with my daughter, her husband and my two grandsons.
“Financially I am ok. We are making our living accommodations work for now, and my son-in-law moved the rest of my belongings, including my sewing machines, this past weekend.
“In hindsight, what a waste of my time, and all love was lost for him when he began disrespecting me. So, it was not a difficult decision in the end. It was not a real relationship.”
Tom’s response to Stacey in July, 2019:
Good to hear you got out with your five sewing machines and other equipment. When respect is lost in a relationship, it’s just no good.
I’m surprised at how he treated you. A waste of time? Not really, consider it a life experience that didn’t work.
Moving-in together lessons stemming from today’s story for Champs
1. If you own property, keep it, in case you need to go back to it
2. Before moving in with someone, have a written guarantee in a will or estate plan that you will be able to stay there for at least six months–or however long you’d need–to make other arrangements. This is particularly true when the man is older than the woman, as there is a more likely a chance something will happen medically to him first
3. Do not move in with someone, if you sense there will problems created by his or her adult children, because they feel threatened or whatever. Don’t wait until after you have moved in to figure out how adult children are going to act toward you. Relationships are difficult enough, without that added baggage
4. Don’t stay in a relationship because there is a lack of men in the dating world
5. Don’t stay in a relationship where you aren’t respected
6. Always have an escape plan—in case things don’t work out
On Life and Love after 50 eNewsletter – March 9, 2018
Senior Cohabitation: Living together and finances
The two most recent columns—regarding Sally’s man-friend wanting to move in, and the 35 responses by Champs to Sally’s situation–brought to light issues senior couples should consider when it comes to finances and living together.
Kathy emailed, “I’ve been remarried to my X-husband for three years. Concerning money: Having our money completely separated except for one household account that we both put money into each month has changed everything. We still buy things for each other but when I buy clothes or other non-essential items, I have no guilt and neither of us can blame the other for spending all the money.
“It has changed my life, I make at least twice as much as my husband and at the end of our marriage last time, he had me believing that I spent all the money, that he had nothing because of me and, I would never make it without him. I was very relieved to find that I had plenty of money to live on and share with others without any of his contribution.
“He found he could not make it on his income and had to start working again, which is good for both of us. Always learning.”
Lisa said, “I have been where Sally is now (a man-friend wanting to move-in), and made the foolish decision to have my younger lover move in.
“It was great for a while, but since the house wasn’t his and he wasn’t used to the additional responsibilities of maintenance, it caused friction in the relationship. There was, of course, more than that which let down the relationship.
“I just turned 70, am still working, and am a homeowner with a mortgage. I am planning to sell my Burbank (California) home and move to Arizona where I can buy something nice for cash with the equity I have built.
“I will hopefully find new friends and some sort of relationship there.”
Senior Cohabitation: So you want to move in with me here on my yacht? You’ll have to pay $83.00 a month rent. And, you’ll have to take out the trash and walk the dog.
(Photo by Tom taken in Istanbul in January, 2004)
Mary Lou, “My cousin allowed a financially insecure man into her life after her husband of 30 years died, leaving her very well off financially. This new man convinced her to marry him, ran through her money, and left her with a mountain of debt, which she is still dealing with.
“My cousin had her reasons for wanting to be married that were a bit unique: She was raising two of her grown daughter’s children alone, as her daughter was an addict and on the streets.
“The new man pretended to be a family man wanting to help raise the kids. There were red flags up the ying yang – my cousin’s sister even ran a check on the guy and his bankruptcies came up.
“My cousin’s reaction when her sister told her this? She still isn’t speaking to the sister all these years later, even though the warning was spot on.
“Today my cousin at the age of 72 has one of the grandkids still at home – the boy is 14 and my cousin is a fabulous mom to him. But she is broke, living in a small apartment, and still having to work.
“And the guy she married? They divorced when my cousin’s money ran out, and the guy is living back east and married to another financially well-off woman.
“I am so skeptical of a guy less financially well off who is the one wanting to move in with the financially secure woman. Of course, he does! He’ll have it made. I predict if he moves in, the next thing that will happen is he will get ‘sick’ or have a ‘disability,’ stop working, collect Social Security disability, and she will be stuck with him.
“She has nothing to gain financially by him moving in, and he has everything to gain. I vote NO!”
Gordon, “Sally seemed to be very concerned about financial stability and SHE SHOULD! At her age, financials are more important than ever. She says she has more than he has; if he moved in with her, it would be a windfall for him in that he no longer has a housing cost.”
Tom’s thoughts: Not discounting what has been stated above, let me say that not all live-together relationships have to be financial disasters. In fact, living together can be financially beneficial to both parties.
When couples share expenses, such as groceries, utilities, and other household expenses, including rent or mortgage payments, in a way that is agreed upon ahead of time and fair to both, the financial benefits can be significant. Please note, I am not advocating mixing finances, just sharing expenses.
Let’s say, by sharing, each person benefits by $600 per month or $7,200 a year. And they stay together for 10 years. That would benefit each by $72,000. That amount could be helpful in the retirement years. Or, what if they are together for 20 years, the amount could reach $144,000 each. Of course, if the monthly savings is greater than $600, the numbers will be even larger.
I don’t think the primary motivation for moving-in together should be financial benefit. But if the other important reasons are already present, such as loving each other, and wanting to be together every day, then the financial pluses are the frosting on the cake.
Again, I strongly advocate both people keeping their finances separate. They can do that and still share expenses and chores. Senior cohabitation has its challenges, but when done carefully, it can work.
More on senior cohabitation, finances and moving-in together. A March 10, 2018, response from a reader:
Allen: “I read your response to Sally regarding letting her 56-year-old male friend move in with her, I’m assuming that it was his suggestion to move in to her paid for house.
She mentioned that he had also lived with one or more other women. Sally is a well-educated retired school teacher, what level of education does her male friend have, does he own a home or has he always rented?
“Sally also mentioned that her friend has two sisters and an 86-year-old mother, I would venture to say that he is probably a ‘mommy’s boy’ and that he wants women to take care of him.
“I’m 83, a married male of 49 years with one grown son. I’m nine years older than my wife, which is normal; it is not normal for a male 56 to be dating a woman age 69, he wants what she has worked hard for. I know this guy, not this particular individual, but I know his type.
“Sally, my advise is to RUN, don’t Walk away from this guy, because if you don’t I’m afraid that you are setting your self up for a lot of heart ache. Check out his credit history, how much does he earn, does he have a retirement that equals your teacher’s retirement, does he owe money on credit cards?
“Sally, I don’t know you but I’ve seen other women hurt by his type, so do yourself a favor and find someone else, he’s out there.”
Tom Blake<tompblake@gmail.com>
7:27 AM (35 minutes ago)
to Allen
Allen,
Thank you for writing. I will pass your advice on to her. You make some very valid points. Just curious, do you reside in South Orange County?
Interesting also that you know this type of guy. Also good point about his credit history and credit card balances.
On Life and Love after 50 